Wednesday, 02 July 2008
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Psychological Abuse from Pastors and Clergy
from nita105
How much influence would you say is safe for your pastor to have over your life? If you are anything like me, you will say none. I believe that the pastor's job is to pray and teach the unadulterated Word of God. Nothing more, nothing less.Recently, the Lord allowed me to see that we are living in a world where the gospel of Christ is being distorted to further the personal agenda of some men and women that were entrusted to preach the Word of God. This is why we must pray for our ministers even more.
How would you feel if you and your family were in the middle of bible study and the pastor began asking intrusive questions which led to you and your spouse having an argument right there in the center of the sanctuary? How would you feel if you attended a church where the men and women were at odds against one another and the women were treated like second class citizens? How would you feel if you attended a church where spousal abuse was promoted? Would you leave? For many of us the answer is obvious but there are those that have such strong mind control over their congregants that they literally can't do anything about it.
I saw this going on in a dear sister's life and want to know what you all think about abuse from pastors or the clergy. I want to know how common this is.
How much influence should a pastor have? And at what point do you realize you are in an unhealthy "religious" relationship?
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Comments (22)
We attend a Calvary Chapel because we got sick of going to churches and seeing all the twisting of scripture and all that junk.
We were so happy to find a church (Calvary Chapel) where the pastor just teaches verse by verse, chapter by chapter from the bible. None of that twisting and mental abuse.
A good friend of mine realized recently that the church she was raised in as a child is a cult. Among other things, the members were taught to believe that the pastor and his wife were the voice of God to them and that anything they said was gospel truth.
I've always attended large churches, and the complaints from people usually center on not getting enough attention from the pastors rather than too much.
I believe we are called to respect our pastors. I also believe that sometimes God may lead us to make ourselves accountable to a particular spiritual leader. However, I don't believe this is the case with every spiritual leader. I can respect my pastor without agreeing with everything he says or believing that he has a private word from God for every situation in my life. God wants a personal relationship with me. He's not always going to talk through someone else.
If I felt like I was being manipulated by the leadership, I would leave the church.
Pastor = Shepherd though.
Isn't it a shepherd's job to take care of the sheep? Not merely teach them, but shepherd them? If someone has the title of "pastor" then shouldn't he or she actually be "sheperding" people?
my pastor and his wife are amazing people... like a family to me and i know i can trust them. what i like most about them though is that i can say "you know, i interpreted that differently" and we will talk about what the verse means to each of us separately. however, my dad goes to a separate church (he cheated on my mom and they are divorced) where affairs and other sexual sins are thought of as okay- in the sense that god forgives so you can keep doing wrong and still be saved. LIE. god says you should ask forgiveness and then repent. his pastor has a very strong influence over him and i think it is unhealthy. please pray for him.
My relationship with the pastor (Episcopalian), was OK; but my relationship with the congregation was corrosive. I found myself caught in a conflict: my interpretation of scripture (and the Church's), unambiguously placed me in the position of being judged by my fellow congregants, whose behavior I considered hypocritical. I don't currently see a spiritual way out of this, and so am cut off from the Church till I figure it out.
I have only regularly attended 3 churches in my life. Growing up, I only attended church once or twice a year at the local church in my area. When I first became a believer, I was at first excited about my faith and about learning about the Bible, but never really grew in my faith at that church (I grew outside the church), which was really sad. Not a lot of people paid attention to the message that was being preached anyway, since it was hard to connect with the priest that gave it, though I thought he was a *nice* person. To make matters worse, when i tried to join a youth group there the organizers there were *not welcoming* to me at all and the priest who acted as the youth pastor there (different from the one that preached) at the time (and was kicked out of two churches before) kissed a girl on the lips! seriously....:(
The second church I attended was better, however, the pastor there also did some things that I thought were questionable, which I have now forgiven him of. The rest of the leadership, however, gave me the impression that if one had problems with the senior pastor or with the church they don't give a care about you anymore or that you should just not be in their church without taking the time to really solve the problem with you. I had a friend who also had a concern about someone in leadership of a ministry, and they just ignored her basically without talking to her again. the ironic thing is that as far as i know, this person whom she was concerned about is still in ministry but because I was scared of the pastor's actions, that I shouldn't serve in their ministries anymore. It's like the leadership there want you to worship them instead of God!
The third church is the one I have been attending now. As far as I know, the current pastor of this church would NEVER do the above things that you mentioned a pastor did to your sister in Christ, or if he did there would be accountablity. Another friend of mine went to marriage counseling with a pastor at this chruch and it was the first time ever that her husband also got part of the blame for his part in the problem that they were having instead of just her getting the blame like in her previous church she attended. The sr. pastor teaches the Word of God how it is and he is a man of prayer...yet he has had a tremendous positive impact on many people in the congregation including me despite my having only attending this church for just under 2 years.He has even led ppl to Christ! ...the only bad thing is that he's leaving in Sept...and we are going to get a new pastor...but I don't know if I will be able to trust a new pastor again considering the past at the other two churches i have been a part of.
So, with the experiences i have had, I think there are a few pastors you can actually trust, but not many. I think a pastor has to be careful that he or she stays humble and genunely cares about God and others. I think that comes through prayer and careful, diligent study of the Word of God on his or her part and prayer, encouragement, and exhortation (if necessary) on our part.
I was in a church where everybody can't discern for their own. Like Pickwick12, for some reason everybody thinks that the pastor and the pastor's wife are the voice of God to them. I wouldn't say the church is a cult, but he does try to orchestrate as much as he could in people's personal lives to get people to serve at the church. I did allow them to do that for awhile in my life. For some reason, I couldn't serve at the church affectively because I keep getting spiritual battles as to whether if it's God's will for me to go into ministry or not because they said they see it in me that I am supposed to be in ministry.
It got to a point that the pastor's wife told me that if I wanted to join her discipleship group, I can't even be friends with the guy I'm dating now - a man who truly does go after God's heart. Thank God that He gave me heads up before she asked me to join. I told her I wasn't getting any peace for joining her group, it was like my eyes were open. I saw how the pastor would preach something and it is something completely different from the conversations that we would have.
And that's when God told me to make sure that I make His Word the final authority of my life. He told me to make sure that I don't get approval from anyone whether if s/he is a wo/man of God or not. I need to get approval from Him.
I don't hold a grudge against the pastor or his wife, I learned a good lesson. But there are a lot of people who rather turn to a pastor for their life problems or decisions than to God.
I was spiritually abused by a pastor and it almost ended my happy 20 year marriage. Thankfully God opened eyes and we left that church. It took probably close to ten years before I ever trusted any pastor in the least. It also took time for our marriage to heal from the damage done by a very controlling manipulative man. I am doing well now, as is our marriage but only by the grace of God.
The best book on the subject, which helped me a lot is The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse - by David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen I highly recommend it to anyone struggling with an abusive situation (note that most spiritual abuse is mental, not physical, although physical abuse does occur)
This is definitely a tricky subject to discuss because God tells us in his word that we are to - "obey them which have the rule over you. For they watch for your souls."
But I also understand the abuse that can happen. If you get in a church where you can truly trust what your pastor counsels you to do, then you're blessed because God can give him wisdom in counseling you. But if he went to obvious extremes that were contradictory to God's word and tried to force you to obey him, then you have problems.
Hahas..
The wife of our Pastor recently took over the worship team because our current leader was leaving for California and there was no one else willing to step up. Immediately upon her 'promotion', she quickly said that we should reduce our practice time and make whatever time is left more 'effective'.
When we were trying to coordinate times of practices, I conflicted the most being that I am holding 3 part time jobs. I had clearly explained that one of my jobs is particularly demanding because I was recently promoted to supervisor and I had additional responsibilities laid on my shoulders that I did not expect. Very casually but firmly she said, 'Well, can you just not be a supervisor then?''
I was taken aback by her words but could not help but be angry. All was explained but I detest the fact that she just assumed I would surrender a job that I needed so much just to comply with her schedules. It hurt not because it wasn't my way, but that she did not even bother finding out the reason why we were doing things the way they were.
Although most of it was resolved in the end of our meeting, I cannot help but feel slight resentment. Even though she is human herself, should she not know that as a wife of the head pastor of the church, she should be more careful with her choice of words?
Maybe I am ignoring many things. In fact, I know I am.
Sigh.
@x_bona_fide_x@xanga - I am praying for your father that he be saved, delivered, healed and set free. I am also praying for his pastor that he may hear clearly what the Spirit is saying and communicate it to the people they way God wants him too. I pray that the Spirit of the Lord where reign supreme in their chruch, in their homes and in their souls.
You can read more about this topic in my book By His Stripes We Are Healed.
visit me on the web at www.waterplantgrowth.com to read 3 chapter sample text.
@musterion99@xanga - Valid point. This is why we must pray and ask God where He wants us to be. We must be ever so careful who we give rule over ourselves too. I've actually experienced situtaions of attempted spiritual abuse and sadly enough I know people going through it now. I wrote a book about it - litterally. (lol) It's entitled By His Stripes We Are Healed By Shanita S. Waters (me). You can read a sample at www.waterplantgrowth.com It is of the Christian Fiction genre.
thanks :] unfortunately (or fortunately, idk which one) he is now married to his mistress so its not an affair anymore :[
@x_bona_fide_x@xanga - God has a way that's oh so sweet. You never know how He is going to move.
@nita105 - Amen. Congratulations on your book.
I agree with you that a pastor's job is to pray and teach the unadulterated Word of God; nothing more... unless they offer counseling of some sort and the advice is worthy. I find that with the five pastors our church has (I go to a very large church within the LCMS), they each offer very good services, and give worthwhile advice, but they do not try to run our lives in any way, shape, or form. I think it's important for pastors to realize that they have responsibilities, but they also have boundaries, and if some of those boundaries are crossed and they claim it to be their "responsibility" to do so, that can cause problems, and I feel they can be out of line with their congregants.
Just a few thoughts there.
I do believe that the pastor is there to preach the uncompromising Word of God and that he should have our respect but I also believe the pastor should have influence in our life. Hebrews 13:17 says
"Obey your leaders and
submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must
give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a
burden, for that would be of no advantage to you."
Our pastors have a tough responsibility because they have to give an account for how they keep the flock. The have a responsibility for our spiritual wellbeing just as a shepherd has responsibility for the wellbeing of his sheep. Also these are people who have devoted their life to God, often being a pastor is their career, so they spend a great deal of time in the Word and prayer and with that comes a great deal of wisdom. I think what they say should be taken seriously, both from the pulpit and in normal conversation.
It says that we are to submit to their authority and obey them. When you realize that they really are looking out for you're spiritual wellbeing, it's easier to realize the importance of obeying them, even if they tell you something hard.
For example, I know a couple who are getting married this month who put their relationship on pause for 2 1/2 years because of the advice of our pastor. It wasn't a command or a demand, but he knew the timing was off, and both will tell you that they are glad they were obedient to the pastor's advice and there was a lot of wisdom in that for the situation they were in. But at the time, it was extremely difficult for them to break it off, and they couldn't necessarily see the benefits of submitting.
But I will say that pastors are humans, and are prone to mistakes like anyone else. I also think there should not be manipulation because that is not a tactic for the upbuilding of the body but increasing the power of a person. I don't know the situation, but from your words it does sound like psychological abuse, and it should not be part of God's church.
But I think we do need people we consider spiritual authorities who will set us straight when we get off course, even if we don't like it.
@musterion99@xanga - Thank you... It's been a long time in the making but well worth the wait (and work).
Excellent questions, both. I contend that the current church system is broken. Leaders were never meant to wield the kinds of authority many do in our current system. Everyone was meant to submit to one another - that meaning to listen to what one another has to say, then take it to our Father to test the spirits behind them: "Father, how much of what this person said is true? How would You like me to respond to it?"
Currently many churches according to their structure give leaders the power to mediate between God and man, something strictly forbidden in Paul's writings.
My ideal is a body where authority is earned, not imputed, where everything that is taught is brought back to the center: how can we let our God's love in more deeply so that we may be changed and empowered to trust and obey Him more to His glory and our shared joy? In this body people are allowed to disagree and still expect to be loved as much as ever. God, Himself, will be the leader of this group. It will meet giving deference to Him about how to proceed throughout the meeting. Biblical reconciliation ideals (immersed in love) are taught and practiced. And love is learned better and better by practice, seeking, studying, but most of all by letting our God's love into our innermost beings to the furthest extent we can on a regular basis. Only His love can change a heart, and it does so instantaneously. He is most awesome and more than worthy of worship from our deepest beings!
nice topic but I feel like if a pastor is actually intruding into your life like that, doesn't it constitute a cult?
To me that sounds like the controlling behaviors of some the cults we know of out there. Then again, sometimes it just takes one honest comment from either your friend or a pastor to get some things changing in your life when it comes to some obviously destructive sins. The sins I'm thinking about could be addiction to pornography, or maybe you have a drinking problem, or you're cheating on your spouse or other situations.
So, I don't really know for sure how much a pastor should be involved with your life.
like @pottermom@xanga - I would also like to offer a book suggestion.
I bought this book because I needed it. I have then given it to several others who attend/ed the same church.
Healing for Spiritual Abuse- Ken Blue
It was absolutely fantastic for seeing how/why these things happen, and even our own susceptibilities too it.
x
Wow! All so true.
Have you seen the website:
www.wickedshepherds.com
These spiritual monsters will use anything to gain their own ends.