Tuesday, 01 July 2008
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Christians at the Bar: Yea or Nay?
So God, Jesus, and a man walk into a bar....
Throughout my college years, I have met and/or seen many of my Christian counterparts in bars and clubs, myself included. I always had one of two reactions: 1) "What are you doing here?" and 2) "Hey...! It's good to seee you! Um... This is awkward."I will admit, I ignored God a lot through those years so that I could have my "fun" without Him while I was out. Ironically, the majority of the time, I'd go out with my Christian friends. We would all egg each other on and encourage having a great night with a great buzz. I did a lot of that my freshman through junior years of college; by the time senior year came around, I had sobered up and realized that graduation was right around the corner and I'd have to behave like an adult. It was at this time that I also came back to Jesus. To be honest, I was never the type of person to drink heavily or do really crazy things while out; it was always about simply having a good time and relaxing a bit from all the long hours of studying that we'd put in. So when I came back to God, I started questioning my behavior and what other people had thought of me during those years that I frequented the bars and parties with my friends (who after I moved away and quit partying, also quit hanging out with me.)
Looking back, there's some things that I'd do differently, but at the same time, all those things contributed to the perspective I have now. Not everyone who goes to the bar is out to get wasted and act a fool; some of them were just like me - simply out to spend some time with friends, and it happened to be a bar.
Now that I'm out of college, I definitely have cut back a lot on going out to the bars. Occasionally I will still go out to a bar with friends just to catch up and hang out a bit. When I go on Facebook these days, I'll see pictures from fellow Christians who are just starting out their college years going to bars and clubs. It makes me think about the decisions that we make as Christians and whether or not others question our beliefs when we show up at places like bars and parties. My mentality now is: We are set apart from the rest of the world. When we show up at a bar or a club, aren't we just telling the world that we're just like them and we can do the same things they can? So then it seems as though we're not set so much apart from the world if we do these things.
My question: Although it's not right for Christians to frequent bars, clubs, keg parties, etc, is it okay for Christians to occasionally drink at a bar? (By occasionally, I mean once or twice a month.) Does it make a difference whether you're going out with Christians or non-Christians?
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Comments (166)
I am a Christian and I have been to bars/grills with family and friends.. I haven't been to club parties yet.. I think it's ok to drink occasionally as long as you know your limits.. :)
Christians drunk=nay. Christians going to bars=depends on the person.
First, my best friend got saved because my Bible study friends and I went to bars/nightclubs while we were in college. We knew her for a year before she came to Bible study. We also witnessed to many in those clubs.
However, frequenting them is bad if you can get easily influenced by worldly perspectives. Years in nightclubs led to me actually getting drunk on occasion. It also led to me dating some non-Christians who were bad for me. I slipped into a more and more worldly approach to things. It's not a healthy place to be too much.
If Christians only associate with Christians, people won't meet Christ through them. But there's a balance that requires wisdom and self control. And avoiding the occasion of sin. But simply being in a place where drinking is the main form of recreation isn't inherently bad. Sinning is bad.
In the world, not of the world, is what comes to mind here. Don't you think maybe that refusing to go to a bar because you're a Christian would give non-Christians the idea that Christians are holier-than-thou stiffs? We need to reach people on their playing fields. Note, I'm not saying go to a bar, get rip-roaring drunk and flirt with every member of the opposite sex in sight, but I think you know that.
This is a good question, though. People - oftentimes Christians - seem to think there's two extremes when it comes to drinking: don't drink, or be a drunk. It's as though they can't fathom moderation. Good morning, Jesus drank wine.
I think its not always where you are but WHAT are you doing? I go to a neighborhood bar/rest. & I sometimes have a drink but I never get drunk or act a fool or dress or act the part of a loose woman.
& I know that I know ppl can still tell What I am about.
Paul got made at Peter for acting wishy washy about this very thing.... You know though there is scripture that ALWAYS gives us a guide I can't remember where it is but in laymens words... Never defile your conscience ...if it feels wrong though it might not be a sin...it becomes a sin to go against your conscience,,, that should help anyone in most things =)
Personally I think it's ok for Christians to drink occasionally. Also if we are acting decently, I think it can be a great ministry to others who think Christians are stuffy, boring, and hate those who go to bars. I think it would make a difference on who I went with, and that it would be easier to not go overboard with Christian friends. But I also think it's up to each person. Some people could handle the bar scene, while others can't. So I think a lot of it just depends on each of us as well.
maybe i have a different perspective b/c i've lived in places where drinking at bars is totally normal (NYC and England), but i don't see anything wrong with it as long as the drinking is kept to a moderation. i go out with both christian and non-christian friends and it's really just about hanging out and catching up.
i think the more we think it's strange and sinful, the more we cut ourselves off from the real world. yes, we shouldn't engage in sinful behavior, but we shouldn't shelter ourselves from other people just to avoid sin.
is it ok to cuss or have sex out of marriage 'once or twice a month'?
Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill church in Seattle is a guy that would go into bars solely to witness and tell people about Jesus because Christianity as he puts it needs to be communicated with a contextualization based on the culture... wherein you can ask questions like, "So why are you here in a bar drinking your 5th pint of Heineken?"
This is so dependant upon the conviction of a person though. I personally because of my experience when alcohol is consumed... i've had or experienced some pretty lame, avoidable, nonsensical, and plain stupid things because of alcohol consumption... so for me... booze and me won't mix (no pun intended)... i won't drink it cuz of what it does to people... i'll prbably have a glass of Champagne at my wedding and have a dry bar...... but my fridge won't be stocked with Buds... but for me... since drinking isn't a weakness for me... just like a cigar isn't a weakness for me... i can drink responsibily as well as smoke a cigar... it's not an addiction or a weakness i have to contend with...
and yet... i say this with a grain of salt because I am a youth leader at my church and it just isn't fitting for me to condone such things because of my position as a youth leader... that whole living above reproach idea comes into play because of my position so I cannot say i condone such things as Christians....
i will say that You MUST follow the voice and guidance of the Holy Spirit in the matter... but ultimately do what you can to bring Christ to the places where He is needed... in righteousness and holiness....
Well I'm actually too young to drink but I believe that our character develops in teenage years and If I were you it's would have been best to stop those worldly doings when you were younger.It doesn't mean now that you're an adult that's when you become stature meaning mature. Example : you cannot just flip the switch at age twenty and going to start being Christ like.
Another thing is that people always watch us Christians that's why we should always take care of our testimonies,actions,words and etc. So I believe that it's a NAY for drinking and partying or whatever because us Christians are IN the World but NOT OF the World. So lets all be Christ like and be an exellent example to other so we may bring fruits to the Lord.
And we don't have to do those worldly things to be happy or to have fun...don't you think that walking and spending time with God is the best and blissful thing ? So why do that if you have God ? Lets be faithful and be devoted to him !!!
I believe that as believers we need to walk with all kinds of people. We can still set an example by going to a bar, showing tolerance for how much we consume and how we choose to behave. I don't see anything wrong with going to a bar every once in a while as long as the choices you make there glorify Him.
Being a college student in a college town, I admit I have struggled with this. While I don't attend keggers and the like, if you want something to eat without driving across town, you go to a place with a bar, and most of the places are set up in a way where it is a bar that serves food, not a restaurant with a bar. I just don't want my witness to be diminished because someone saw me behaving "just like everyone else."
My best friends will not eat at any establishment which serves beer, wine, or anything stronger. And as such, most of their dinning out is limited to fast food, IHOP, Huddle House, and Golden Corral. That's not an option for me. I'm in too many student orginizations that meet over "wing night" at the local pub. I have to work or attend too many political rallies, meetings, dinners, and receptions where business is conducted over wine glasses.
As for me, I generally stay around my table. If I see a friend at the bar, I wave them over to me. If I do go up to the bar, I make sure there is nothing in my hand. In political situations, I just normally get a bottle of water and carry it around with me.
In short, as I begin my fourth paragraph , I always hold to my conviction not to drink; but, I do not shun my friends who do. I am, or at least have been able to this point, to visit and network with them. In the end, though they may give me a hard time during the event, they normally express some kind of "new found respect" later. It has happened with everyone from other college students to lobbyists, to members of Congress. Don't worry about going to the establishment, but don't feel like you have to drink because you are there.
I'm a christian and I don't drink. I did go through a spell as a teenager when I did. I'm not going into detail but needless to say, that was a time when I wasn't following Jesus as I should have been. I don't even think a drink here or there is acceptable. I just don't see the point in it at all. I don't think we are being Jesus in skin when we do it.
Jesus did not drink our idea of wine. It was more like juice, without alcohol. We studied this awhile in church to clear up that excuse with people.
And about bars, how many christians are HONESTLY going to bars to witness?? I have many friends who are christians who go to bars and drink occasionally. I don't agree with it, I don't go with them. And I can tell you that they have never told me that they talked about the Lord there.
Not trying to be judgemental or be all stiff, that's just where I stand. I've been on both sides of that fence before.
I just feel like from experience and just from being in the Word that being at a bar and exposing yourself to what lurks in the secular bar scene is not worth it for a Christian. I've lived in Miami, FL all my life and down here, the bars, even for locals, mean trouble and warrant going in groups for a safe time (if in the end you decide to go). Behind all the glamour of South Beach are drug dealers, drunks who look for trouble, and just a host of things that for me are not even worth exposure, in my own opinion. It's the just the boundary I've set for myself based on what I know about myself and what the Word says.
I remember during a couple of sessions during my bible study we went over if
it was okay do consume alcohol or not. The consensus our bible group ended up
with was it was ok, BUT it had to be moderation and it could once or twice a
month if you wanted. Although I know this can be a really touchy subject when
it comes to Christians its either no drinking or not getting drunk. My bible
study group leader went around to a couple of the FOCUS missionaries and asked
them what they though about scripture and personally about drinking and it were
half-and-half.
I never consumed alcohol until I was 21. In all honesty if I drink it's
maybe once a month and that ends up being one or two beers that’s if I even
bother to drink. I've never wanted to be drunk let alone buzzed. Losing self
control because of drinking I've never condoned and I know in the bible in a
few places that it is looked down upon. In addition, I've seen what excessive
drinking has done to tear marriages apart.
If a Christian does go to a bar I would say if they go they would need to
know their limit and to stay below it because dangers and sin can easily slip
into someone’s life if they get to reckless when it comes to drinking and
excessive partying.
I don't see a problem with Christians frequenting bars. I mean, is this way of relaxing really such a big deal? Christians ARE just like everyone else, and they DO do things the same ways, they just have some different beliefs! If you have a strong faith, getting drunk won't change anything.
Jesus was accused by Pharisees (those who said do this and don't ever do that) of being a drunkard. Many evangelical Christians and fundamentalist Christians act like they are allergic to alcohol and are afraid of it. I'd say that alcohol is something that if used at all, needs to be done first of all in moderation and second of all with an air of maturity. While you can probably learn this maturity by drinking too much and then saying, I'll cut back and stay back or you can learn how to process life, deal with emotions, circumstances, stress and everything else that comes with it in a healthy way without alcohol and then have the freedom to have a drink or two. Most of the time when people get drunk, in my experience, it's to hide, cover up, escape and that's not what we're called to do--even though we can very well do it without alcohol. There is absolutely nothing wrong for me to drink, though, as I am currently doing, I'm choosing not to just cause I don't really care to do it at the moment. When I do, it's one or two for me and that's my limit. But for some of my close Christian friends, they can't drink or be around alcohol because of their past and I want to help them celebrate their freedom by not being a stumbling block, while at the same time being completely transparent with them as long that is neither a stumbling issue either.
What's the matter with a Christian going to a bar if s/he doesn't drink? Jesus went to parties where alcohol was served, yet didn't drink nor get drunk. I had people actually say to me that I seemed more like a real person to them because I had no qualms about going with them to a bar. The fact that I didn't drink with them was a matter of conversation, but made little difference in ther perview of me...
I say no. In Proverbs it says that whine is a mocker and not to even look at it when it spakles in the cup. Being drunk is a vice, and not only does it make you look bad but it also gives Christians in general look bad. Furthermore, bars are places of sin full of worldly people. People go there to get drunk, and some go there in order to take advantage of women while they are drunk. There is also date rape. I don't see why a Christian should be in a bar anymore than why one ought to go to a novelty store.
I actually disagree with the idea that occasionally going to a bar is different from frequenting them. I have no problem at all with either. how does it hurt for the world to know that we can drink, even smoke? what is the secret? should I not eat in front of the world either? lest they think me a glutton? must I cut my hair so they don't think I'm a hippie? must another grow his out so they don't think he is a racist skinhead?
If the old idea of alcohol was juice, why are there so many warnings against drunkenness? juice has never once made me stagger or vomit (Isaiah 19:14) there are MANY more similar references, but for the sake of brevity I think the one will suffice. also, consider this.
Luke 5:39 (King James Version)
39No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better. (KJV)
John 2:10 (King James Version)
10And saith unto him, Every
man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well
drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until
now.
OK, I'm gonna break this down really clearly, if Jesus made the best wine, and the old wine is better, then, Jesus made old wine. maybe I'm way off, but I think wine ferments more as time goes on. either way, I hold to the fact that the bible warns against drunkenness, and talks about the effects of drinking wine so you can't tell me it was juice.
now to qualify it all. In Ephesians it is said, "Do not get drunk with wine." and I'm sure that applies to Scotch too. Also we should always be alert to the Christians who either are suspect to drunkenness or alcoholism, as well as to those who are convicted against it. If we pressure someone into drinking (whether purposefully or not, I do think "peer pressure" counts) who thinks it is wrong, then we are also at fault.
please, stop making new rules, this is condemned! Do not be like the pharisees, making laws that never were, then considering yourself better than the rest because you follow your own false law.
i see no problem with a Christian consuming alcohol.
Granted, it must be in moderation. I see nothing wrong with a glass, maybe 2, or wine, or maybe a beer or two. But not every night, not a whole bottle or six pack, and definitely no public drunkery.
I can't wait to be 21, and to be legal and to be able to have a drink, though I probably will not partake in drinking very much.
@jmsnooks@xanga - "Furthermore, bars are places of sin full of worldly people."
Ah. Much like churches then.
Thank God that he loves us sin-filled worldly people so much...
I grew up in the church..youth group and missions all through my "teen" years. I was at home when I turned 21. My mom was going to take me out for my first drink, but she had gone to a substance abuse seminar/conference for her job just a few weeks before. She changed her mind, and I didn't drink on my 21st birthday. My first drink was on my 22nd birthday, and I hated it. It was horrible.
Within the last 8 months, I have been to a bar with a friend, who is not a Christian, about three times. We have always gone at lunch time during the week when the only people there are older, business men. I could never handle being in a bar or club in the evening. Just not my style.
I, personally, have no issues with the occasional drink or drinking in moderation. I don't drink often..not even once a month..and have never been drunk. However, just because I don't have any issues with it, doesn't mean that I am going to force that on everyone else. If another person has strong convictions on it, who am I to tell them they are wrong?
I will probably never be a "drinker". I have had some experiences with people that have been drunk that have completely turned me off to drinking, even moderately. While everything may be permissible, not everything is beneficial. (1 Cor. 10:23)
Why only occasionally?
I am a Christian, fairly devout. For two years I frequented a local bar/lounge (by frequent I mean met up with some other Christians there every Tuesday night). We met there because the wings were cheap, Tuesday was Trivia night (and we won a 50 buck gift certificate a few times), it was a convenient location, and because we had fun. Out of the Christians who met there, some of us drank, some didn't. I usually had a beer or two, my friend Chris P grabbed a Smirnoff. The others stuck with soda or water. None of us got drunk; we were all good to drive at the evening's end.
I fail to see how what I did could be considered wrong. Scripture condemns drunkenness, never drinking. (And to all you who cling so desperately to the idea that Bible-wine was non-alcoholic, explain to me how many biblical characters could have gotten drunk?)
Oh, forgot to mention. We got to know one of the waitresses really well over those two years. A friendship even. We prayed for her dog when it was sick, and we invited her to church many times. Never got her to church itself, but she did come to one of our coffeehouse events. No, witnessing to this waitress wasn't our first priority in being in that bar--we were there to have fun and fellowship. But it did happen.
For those who are recovering alcoholics, I would advise them against visiting bars. For those who have a weakness for alcohol, I would advise against visiting bars. For those whose consciences are bothered by alcohol, well, Paul tells us not to sin against our consciences, and it would then be a sin for you specifically to visit a bar. But don't try to say that it's wrong for any Christian to visit or frequent a bar. Don't take your personal convictions and try to paint them across all of Christendom.
It's like this. It's not forbidden in Scripture. Don't forbid things in the name of Christianity that Scripture didn't even implicitly forbid. Jesus had some very strict warnings for those who taught the teachings of men as though they were the doctrines of God.
I think drinking falls under one of the things that is a personal conviction and people need to listen to the Holy Spirit in their lives as far as what is acceptable. For me, drinking alcohol is not something that I do. This verse influenced me:
"'Everything is permissible for me'--but not everything is beneficial." 1 Cor. 6:12.
To be honest, my not drinking alcohol has seemed more beneficial, as non-Christians notice that something is different about me. I try not to make a big deal about it, but they still seem to notice and I think it is a good testimony. Not of my self-righteousness, but of my contentment in Christ.
If anyone has question about what the bible says about this subject, go to www.bible.com and read TODAY'S daily devotional...great timing, huh? =)