Monday, 16 June 2008
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Convictions About Modesty
from insert_name_here15
A few nights ago, my friend and I had a discussion on modesty. She felt that she could wear whatever she wanted at the beach, but I felt convicted that bikinis are immodest. Afterward, I looked up the verse that she'd mentioned: "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." Right after that verse, though, is this instruction: "Do not cause anyone to stumble." I realized that God places some restrictions on our freedoms so that there is order and that everyone benefits from the decisions the body of Christ makes daily.
The way young women dress and conduct themselves around others is very powerful. Bikinis and cut out swimsuits were not designed to "get a tan." Many women took the bikini as a "liberation," when in fact they were being used as eye candy--ask anyone--what are people looking at when you are in a bikini? Your body! People know what arouses them. We are causing our brothers to sin if our exposed bodies lead them to lust.We may have "freedom in Christ," but we don't have the freedom to make others stumble. Paul talks about this in Galatians 5. We are to act in love, and not indulge in the "sinful nature." If what you are doing causes your fellow brother to indulge in the sinful nature--don't do it! By your actions, you yourself are indulging in selfishness, which is a part of the sinful nature. If it causes even a stranger to sin, don't do it! It doesn't matter if you're wearing clothes, a bikini, drinking, dancing, or whatever it is. It's selfish of Christians to even pretend as though doing so is ok. And believe me, God will hold every single one of us accountable for our actions.
God wants every single one of us in this group to stand up for righteousness, and especially as women, to stand up for purity and modesty. God has been convicting me of this, and while I feel a responsibility as a sister in Christ to say something, I keep in mind that my stance on bikinis did not come about until the Holy Spirit took hold of my heart.
Do you ever worry that the way you dress or conduct yourself causes others to stumble?
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Comments (57)
Personally, I like bikinis, but not because they show off my body. I like them because they're comfortable. Besides, one-piece suits are coming back in fashion, and girls can look just as "alluring" without showing as much skin, so what difference does it make?
Amen, as I guy who's trying to keep his body and mind pure I'm begging all of my Christian sisters to, please, be modest. Sure, as men we got a responsibility to do our part in pursuing purity but we can't live victoriously without your help. As far as swim suits go just wear whatever you'd wear if you were on a swim team. Plus, if your dressing modestly out of the water you won't need a tan all over lol. God bless, and thank you. It's hard fight and us men need all the help we can get.
Mike
This strikes me as such a double standard. You scold women for showing any sort of sexuality, but for men it's acceptable and expected? Perhaps seeing men is speedos makes me 'stumble'. And the fact of the matter is, lust is a normal part of life and has been since the beginning of time (yes, even in the bible). It will happen whether bikinis are involved or not.
I def. agree with you that it is a woman's responsibility to dress modestly and not cause our brothers to stumble. Sure we may not be able to keep every one of them from stumbling because some men will think something inappropriate from long shorts and a baggy t-shirt. But we should do what is in our ability to do. God's word is our authority and if He says in the Bible that we shouldn't cause our brothers to stumble than there is no questioning it. Also I would say that a woman can have in "immodest" attitude when wearing anything. The way we move and act and the things we say can have an alluring affect as well. We need to keep a gentle and quiet attitude that the Bible talks about.
Proverbs 31:30
Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.
as a guy who's walked many, many beaches (though the past few years I've been kayaking past them more than walking them), I just want to say that Bikinis are the bane of my existance. Well, I guess my libido is the bane of my existance, but bikinis don't help. They make me struggle so hard to maintain what little level of purity I can, that it wears me out spiritually...and it's even worse when I have a girlfriend, because it's incredibly difficult to be loyal to her when all I see is skin, sand, and water.
@trulytaken@xanga - I have to say this is the best reply on this topic so far... okay, AMONG the best! It's not about any one person's standard of modesty because lets face it, everyone has a different idea on that. Sure, there could be a good set of guidelines written up, but if I know men (because I are one), we can lust no matter how many layers of clothes a woman has on! And lest you think modesty is strictly a female issue, take a
look in the men's department at all the tight, low cut girly
jeans they try to sell us!
It's really about worshiping God with how we handle our natural man. Does the way I live bring honor to the King? Then I'm not doing anything with my demeanor to detract attention from Him; and that includes my personal style.
If every heartbeat I have, if every breath I breathe is lived for a single purpose; to re-present the TRUE Love that has found me, then I will automatically be respectful, but not consumed, with the way I carry myself. Am I being a clear window through which others can see Jesus Himself, or am I being a beautiful, but very dim stained glass church window where others can only see ABOUT Jesus? Ouch.
i only wear what I think I look good in, but unfortunatley I look good in things that aren't that "modest" i have troubles with this. >_<
Modesty can also be a behavior... like a state of mind. The reason behind your decisions in dress and language and actions. I like to think this, how would this fly if in a moments notice I was called before the throne of God? He will see our hearts, did we put this on in the hopes that we would get attention. Did we wear this out of pure vanity, "I know it's revealing but I look so cute in it!" I think that if we wear something comfortable in the fact that it is in neither extreme, then that is modesty. I don't think its right either to make a show of modesty! If a man has lustful things to think about you then, then that is a variable we women have no control over. It is true that a woman can be clothed in a burka and still be blamed for men thinking lustful thoughts. Women can't take all the shame for this. Men have
their part to do in modesty. It can extend beyond womanhood and
clothing, but it is a key issue for women because their really are women who are immodest just for the sake of immodesty.
I remember reading an article about how the authors friend (both women) moved to a country where it was not acceptable for women to expose anything beyond their faces and hands. The author expressed great laments over this because her friend was very beautiful and had gorgeous hair that she had to cover up. When she asked her friend how she dealt with this and how she felt about the whole thing, she expressed that she never felt so beautiful and HOT before because she was the only woman her husband ever saw. None of the women in that area walked around in shorts and tank tops. She was it! Not even on TV did he see another woman! So, that is another aspect of it. To be a gift for only the man you love above all other men. Their is respect in that. We really do have a tremendous sway on how men think and behave, but I will not agree that it is one sided.
Good topic.
On the other hand, some get too carried away with the modesty issue that they swing too far to the other side... Girls do need to dress up to a certain acceptable standard, otherwise how will guys get attracted to them? One won't get many dates by wearing shabby clothes.
I agree with what many people have said: that a lot depends on cultural context. I lived in West Africa for many years, and there I not only wore a one-piece, I usually put board shorts on top of the suit. In the US... well, just because it's more acceptable doesn't mean it's a good idea. I still don't feel comfortable in bikinis so I don't wear them, but I don't fuss if my tankini shows a couple inches of midriff either.
Beyond that, though, I have a figure that is difficult to conceal. At my conservative Christian high school, I once got a dress code violation for wearing a turtleneck. I have every intention of being modest, but seriously, a turtleneck? There comes a point where our efforts at being modest simply become impractical, demeaning, and dowdy. I've seen men wander city streets in their underwear without anyone questioning them, and I've seen women veiled from head to toe pass out in the streets of Amman, Jordan. There's something to be said for freedom in Christ and for responsibility for one's own thoughts.
Also, why can't we celebrate the beauty of the bodies God gave us (in a modest fashion) without fearing that we are being sinful?
As a high school teacher, I am often embarassed by what some of our young women wear (and young men, too for that matter). Often what is worn is not worn to shock, but often, particularly in the instance of younger teens, to look grown up. Sadly, many of their ideals come from the music world. A word to them often does wonders in terms of wearing attractive, yet modest apparel.
Having said that, I must also point out that when it comes to young men, no matter what the young woman is wearing, the young men have a tendency to talk to the chest rather than the face. If we strive for the ideal of modesty, then it must also apply to men, who have claimed the "I'm a guy and programmed to look" excuse for far too long. Gentlemen, you control your eyes-if you are strong enough to lift weights, you can lift your eyes to look the young lady in the eyes. That's how you prove how strong you really are.
I believe that people can use the issue of modesty as an excuse not to truly deal with their sinful motives and attitudes (I said can, not invariably will) men can run around trying to cover women because they refuse to deal with their lustful temptations, and women can call them prudes because they don't want to deal with their hunger for attention that can spring from their pride. I fully admit that there have been times, when I was dressed modestly, but my attitudes were not modest, when most of my legs were covered, but I hoped that the part that wasn't would catch the attention of a young man
I also believe that people use the concept of Christian liberty as excuse. Users will say that they have a right to do whatever they want to, while abstainers will feel that it is their right to be offended and to be catered to. Paul said that one of the reaons to abstain is for the weaker brother, but people have used the title of "the weaker brother" to include those who just don't agree. I can sit there and drink an entire case of beer (to use someone elses illustration) and my grandpa, who is a fundamentalist, will he not be tempted in the least to join me. Is he still a weaker brother?
i think guys just need to not think bad thoughts. no matter what a girl wears they still whistle and howl... even in gramma clothing.
I find it a bit ironic that your friend quoted that verse. Not just because of what follows (as you pointed out) but also because of what it literally says. Yes, God does give us the freedom to eat and drink and do what we choose, but He also demands that we do it for HIS glory. Now, maybe this is crazy, but I don't think that wearing a bikini will direct attention and glory to our Heavenly Father. If we truly strive to glorify God in all we do (and say and wear...) inviting stares and attention to ourselves is not acceptable.
Thank you for posting this, in today's culture and mindset this topic is all too often forgotten, neglected or avoided.
This is an extremely timely subject on so many levels. I think that we as women have a big responsibility in how we dress, conduct, and present ourselves. I have a friend who has repeatedly worn expremely provocative shirts that were really quite revealing. At one point she showed up at my (11 yr old) son's bday party in a very low cut tank. She is a mother and when she bent over to talk to her son, she showed EVERYTHING short of her nipples. It's a point in which I took great offense. I had spoken w/her before about how she dressed at my home, in front of my teen/preteen sons, and my husband. My husband in very devoted and loves me deeply. He was uncomfortable with the way she was coming dressed, and what impact it may be having on our boys. It isn't just the grown men we must consider. It's the young men, that are affected by how we present ourselves.
How can we expect the boys to understand and appreciate a modest and godly woman and covet that for a wife, if we as mothers, sisters, aunts and friends don't teach it?!
Very good topic....Thanks!
If there's anything I learned in church it's that our flesh is weak but through God we are strong. Man or Woman we will all stumble. So women can wear what they want to wear and man can stumble all day. What matters is our actions. Our minds will lust, that's given but our hearts will refrain if we allow the Lord to speak to it and come to Him humbly asking for the strength to resist temptation.
I don't know about most men but whenever I see a woman in a bikini my eyes are ready to jump out its sockets. My mind gets filled with Lust and all I can say or do is ask Jesus "Why have you made women so beautiful that I my mind can't keep from lust" and Jesus will answer "Because I am Lord who created all things with beauty and grace". Then I remember why I believe in Him because he is an AWESOME God and he is "the way, truth and the life". Think of it this way there are Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many beautiful women in this world, to me it's only confirmation that nothing of such beauty is created by man or science. Only by the creator of all creators our God.
To all the men out there struggling with this ask God for strength and He will see you through. Women modest or not shouldn't have to keep men from seeing the Glorious Creations and Miracles of the Lord. Women pray for our strength and guidance for I know all men will face Jezebel and only God can deliver us. All I can wonder is when my time comes where I must choose righteousness over temptation will I fall.???? My answer is "God won't let me" and if I do His hand will be extended to pick me back up but its my choice whether I take His hand or not because the path of the wicked will entice me.
Oh Lord I pray that my flesh is filled with your holy spirit, give me strength and wisdom to overcome All obstacles! God Bless You All and thank you for this topic, Go in peace and with the strength of the Lord.
Just wanted to add any woman, believer or non-believer, who is respectful of their bodies will choose to do the right thing and wear the right clothes. How we dress ourselves is an outer extension of our character and who we are but doesn't entirely represent all that we are because as stated in many posts it has to do with circumstances, culture, influences and geographic location. What about dressing sloppy, wearing hats in church, non-matching, torn and worn out clothing? This doesn't glorify God either but is it modest? I guess God doesn't care about what you wear but he cares about where your heart is which can be contradictive because if your heart is after God then it's not right to flaunt your body. All I can say is us Guys have to learn to keep it in our pants and for woman be respectful of their bodies. It's that 2 way street. We can't judge a woman just because she wears a bikini but if she knows what she's wearing is revealing and provocative and she wears it anway for the reason of getting attention then we just need to pray for her.
No matter what you do you can't hide beauty, it's like covering up God's art. It doesn't matter what she wears beauty will pierce through any clothing and catch any eye. It's just how God created us... Bless the women who are modest and for the ladies dressing sexxy trying to gain attention from Men, we'll pray for you.
@HanBan@xanga - in the bible it says that women should dress modestly.
I think modesty is very important. I think people forget that you can still dress modestly and look cute and fashionable! Obviously people are free to do and wear what they want, but I dress modestly because I feel the Lord has called me to do so, and I don't want to cause my brother's in Christ to stumble, just as you said!
I admit I find good-looking women attractive, but I agree wit is more of an "eye-candy" reaction/lust... However, I find women who are modest attrative in another way, in a way that makes me respect them and get to know them as a person. In effect, one is seen as an object and another is seen as a person.
Being a teenage girl, I have convictions about modesty all of the time. When it come to the bikini topic, it's hard to tell. I agree that a woman wearing a bikini does stand a greater chance at causing a brother in Christ to sin by looking at her body lustfully, but I also don't think wearing a bikini is going to send me to Hell.
Society also sucks when it comes to these topics, becuase if it were my choice, everyone would wear one-pieces, but that's not going to happen. You get made fun of as a teenager for wearing a one-piece these days, and even though no one should care about those things, have you ever tried to look for a one-piece at a store? They've come up with the new, very sexy 'mono-kini', but to find a suitabel one-piece is very difficult. The mall definiately doesn't have them, because swimwear there is geared towards selling to teens [which means it's all bikinis] and places like Wal-Mart and Target that do sell one-pieces, usually only have them for bigger sizes. I wear a size 3. They don't sell size 3 one-pieces where I can find one-pieces at all. I had to buy one for a church mission trip to Ecuador, and I found it by chance on a sale rack for $30 [a bikini would have been much less expensive] and it didn't fit properly, but it's all they had. Society is against me.
I have often thought about this too. After reading " Every Man's Battle" I was reallt aware of the mind of a man. And it really made me change how i dressed. I was always a modest dresser but now I am for sure because after knowing we are more responsible for not making someone stumble. I totally agree though people should dress more modestly and save it for marriage
I do not think this is what that means. Excuse the concepts of oppressive dress standards and what is lust etc. I think there is a much more disturbing conclusion of these statements. Are we supposed to baby-proof the world for our fellows? Is it meaningful? Yes, don't cause your fellows to sin, but I don't think wearing a skimpy outfit causes sin. It may make it easier, but it doesn't cause it. If someone leaves chicken out over night and you eat it- who caused you to get sick? Sure, it was easier to get sick because there was salmonella filled food available, but you caused yourself to get sick (given that you knew it was left out over night).
But lets put this a bit more in perspective. A bit more about why I find this idea so... disturbing. Let's go a bit further. A sin is a sin- a man who lusts has committed adultery in his heart. So how about changing the sin and seeing if you still feel the same way. What about rape. A woman goes out in a revealing bikini and she is raped. Did she 'cause' the man to sin- to assault her, to rape her? Should she feel guilty or responsible that the sin took place? Did she cause him to stumble? I don't need to go further- you know the answers, at least I sure hope you do.
I do welcome any logical argument against my conclusion, of course-
i think with many things in life, there has to be a balance here. yes, we as women should try to be conscious of what we wear, how we look, and how that might affect a man, but i don't think it should be to the point where a woman feels awkward and unsure of herself. we're beautiful creatures and hiding or suppressing that fact is a disservice to our creator and to us. this isn't to boast, it's just that women so easily become insecure and i think more of us need to celebrate the way God created us.
the other side of the coin is that men do need to be more vigilant about overcoming their lustful attitudes and thoughts through prayer, counseling, accountability, etc. and i think there needs to be more honest, open communication between both sexes about what does or doesn't make the other sex comfortable, and less judgment, scolding. we should be protecting each other, not calling each other out for the sake of legalism.